Tekken 8 Interview: Why Harada Lied to Us and How Heihachi Found His Way Back to Tekken 8 [IGN]

During the show, I got a chance to sit down with Tekken series director Katsuhiro Harada, producer Michael Murray, and game director Kohei Ikeda, to pick their brains about Heihachi returning to Tekken, how the game is performing six months in, and much more.

So, to start this off, why did you lie to us? How is Heihachi coming back from the dead and what made you want to bring Heihachi back as the third DLC character for Tekken 8?

Katsuhiro Harada, Tekken 8 Series Director: [I] didn’t mean to lie or anything about that. It was… Tekken 7 really focused on the story arc between Heihachi and his son, Kazuya, and so, we really wanted to show that kind of final conclusion, and he seemed to die at that point. Right?

But then, after that happened, Tekken 8 was released, and we put a lot of effort into the story and the fans really seemed to be engaged with that. And as that was happening, we were kind of feeling that the players kind of missed him as well. Obviously, we did, too. So, it was kind of decided later on that we would do that.

So, it wasn’t a lie. And then, also, the timing is right since it’s the 30th anniversary of the franchise. And so, we need all three of the Mishimas. This is the most iconic in the series. Right?

Kohei Ikeda, Tekken 8 Director: So, after the fact, we did kind of make the preparations, you know, Reina, kind of that link that she has to Heihachi. And then, also the logo, the 30th anniversary. If you look closely at it, you can see that it’s comprised of Devil’s wings, two different styles, but if you take a step back and look at, it actually looks like the silhouette of Heihachi’s face. Right? So, we were doing some of the preparations in the background.

I know it’s early, but can you tell us a little bit about how this Tekken 8 version of Heihachi will be different from previous iterations, and maybe, how he’ll use heat to his advantage?

Ikeda: Like you imagine, it is a bit too early to be talking many details about his character, but to give some hints, he’s a very powerful play style throughout the series, so we tried to recreate that in Tekken 8. So, the focus is on that. But also, if you saw that a story hints about the monks and the footage and what he has to do with them, that maybe will dictate some of his move set as well.

So, there’s some hints there. We hope that you’ll look forward to hearing more about it.

So, another thing that you’ve announced is this partnership with Chipotle and Nike. Can you talk a little bit about how both those deals came about?

Harada: It really is several different cases. Sometimes, they approach us, other times, it’s something that we ask of them. But there needs to be the right conditions such as it’s a win for us, it’s a win for them. But more importantly, a win also for the fans.

For example, with the Nike thing, Nakatsu and I are both big sneaker… Myself and him, our fans, but there’s a lot of people on the team as well that love Nike. And so, it just happened that that’s something that there’s a lot of sneakerheads in the fighting game community as a whole.

And then, also on the Nike side, we found out they really knew about Kazuya’s being a sneakerhead, and we had a lot of fighting game fans on the Nike side. So, it was a win-win for everyone. And then, also, Chipotle as well, they’ve been supporting the fighting game community. It’s a good match with gamers and their franchises.

And then, also, if it’s something the fans are enjoying, obviously, that’s good for us from our side as well. So, it came about that, hey, that’s a win for everyone, let’s do it. Although the start is different, the conditions are pretty similar.

So, we’re half a year into Tekken 8’s life cycle. How happy are you with how the game has been received by fans, and then, separately, how have the sales so far met with your own expectations?

Harada: After the game released, it’s been six months, like you said, we’re happy with how the title’s performing. It’s continuing at a faster pace than Tekken 7.

Also, considering that compared to the other fighting game titles, we haven’t done the previous generation of hardware. It’s only on the current generation. So, that considered as well, I think it’s doing well.

And then, also from the community’s perspective, the game has been released and it was supported a lot by new players. Some of the people who’ve been with the series for a long time, they voiced some concerns, et cetera, at the beginning, but those opinions changed over the time.

We’ve noticed, during tournaments progressing, et cetera, people have more time with the game, even the more advanced players kind of got a handle on it. And so, their opinion has seemed to change in the past three months, was what he was saying.

Michael Murray, Producer: And I would add the same. We had to make a brand new game. It had to feel like a proper installment. So, Nakatsu and his team really changed the game system a lot, and really clarified the key concepts of the characters and their strengths and weaknesses.

And also, we did an update recently that addressed some of the things that the older players didn’t like. Maybe, enhancing some of the defensive options, et cetera. So, I think the game’s really in a good place currently.

Many of the core mechanics of Tekken 8 have changed since the game was first revealed. Specifically, I remember how the heat mechanics worked a little bit differently when I first saw it. Now that you’ve had six months since release and have heard feedback from both casual players and top-level pros, do you envision any more sweeping changes to the core systems in Tekken 8 or even some new additions?

Ikeda: Like you said, we’ve made some changes to the heat system after release. The reasoning being that, although the concept was clear and we felt we achieved it, that it was very fun to be on the offense and to open up your opponent and to be able to do damage, et cetera, was quite exhilarating, but we realized that some of the elements that people liked about 3D fight game, being able to have defensive options of side stepping or using that 3D environment to your advantage strategically was a little bit weaker perhaps in past installments.

So, with the update like we were mentioning, we enhanced those features a little bit more. So, we currently think that the game is in a good place and there are no further… we’ve already announced this to the player base as a whole, but we don’t plan on making any sweeping changes to the game system itself. We plan on proceeding with this. Although we’ll continue to be fixing bugs and things like that.

And also, like we talked about today, more about the product as a whole, adding new features or making quality of life improvements, trying to make it the best Tekken we can since it is, after all, the 30th anniversary of the series.

So, Tekken has historically been a series that has included some kind of off-the-wall characters like Gon, Mokujin, Roger, Alex and Kuma, and Panda. Since Tekken 6 though, it’s only really been Kuma and Panda representing that kind of character archetype.

Do you think Tekken, as a series, has largely outgrown those types of characters, or is there a chance that we could see those characters come back?

Harada: So, the strategy, the thinking behind the franchise hasn’t changed. It’s not like we’re intentionally removing those characters per se, but if you really take a close look at how they were back in those iterations, it was more of like they were… We call them compatible characters in Japanese, which means like the move set is another character and it’s just the skin is different, right?

There are many of those characters in the past, not just the animals that you mentioned. And over the series, we’ve tried to flesh them out and to do away with that portion. So, making sure that each of the characters are unique. So, even if you have Kuma and Panda, their moves might be slightly different or the Rage Arts or whatever, they’re their own unique character.

That was the main thinking behind that. It wasn’t intentional that the other characters are not making an appearance. That said, in order to get everyone’s favorites, and then, also include characters like that, we’d have to have a roster of like 60-some characters, which just isn’t viable from a launch, and then, also, for the player base to learn how to play against that number of characters is a lot.

So, we wouldn’t say they’re not going to make a appearance ever again. That’s just the current state.

Guest characters have been an important trend in fighting games, and Tekken, obviously, no stranger to them. What are your thoughts in general of having guest characters in your games, and do they come with any sort of unique challenges that, maybe, the average Tekken fan might not think about as just, from the perspective of a fan?

Harada: There [are] some things that maybe are behind the scenes that most people won’t notice – there’s got to be a variety of conditions that align. We want that particular character in our game is the start. Does that IP owner want their property in our game?

And then, maybe, both say, yeah, that’s awesome, but there’s a timing, like for our franchise, when do we want that character to appear? And for them, maybe, they’re like, no, we have plans, we can’t have it until later. Or we have plans that are coming later, so it has to be right now. And then, the fans want to see that in the game.

So, there’s a variety of conditions that have to occur before all of this can work out to be in the game. And then, I was just mentioning that, even if that happens, which is the hard part, right, and then if you’re using a famous character that has a well-known actor attached to it and their schedule is insane, you have to be able to find time to get them into the studio to record voice lines and things like that.

So, there’s so many obstacles that have to be overcome for that to happen. So, it is quite a challenge.

I wanted to ask you if you are familiar with the recent rise of creator-led team tournaments like the Sajam Slam, which, I know you had a thing with yesterday. And the CR Cup. Have you checked any of these out, and what do you think of the team format of having teams that are led by professional players, but then, the teams themselves are mostly made up of non-FGC streamers, YouTubers and other content creators?

Harada: [I do] watch those events, and [I’m] a fan of some of the YouTubers or streamers as well that maybe might not be a FGC person. So, [I’m] aware of it, and [think] it’s really a great thing that’s happening.

Because you have these pros who know their games quite well, but you have the streamers who haven’t, perhaps, played some of these games, and they all have their own communities who, maybe, don’t play fighting games that are, then, become interested because of their favorite streamer.

Another thing that’s quite interesting that happens is that, even if some of these people watch that stream and they find it interesting, maybe, they’re not even motivated to play the game themselves, but they still enjoy watching it and being a part of the audience and enjoying that experience. So, that’s a cool thing to see fighting games reaching a new audience, but maybe, they’re not playing it. That’s still cool though.

Murray: I would say the same thing. I mean, I’m a close friend of Sajam and some of these people, and we’re not directly involved that often, although we did make an appearance, it’s great to see what they’re doing with the game and to see the journey.

For me, especially, I was watching LilyPichu and to see her start off with no knowledge of Tekken, and then, she just becomes so engrossed and I see her face, the hurdles that beginner players face, and then, she overcomes them as she’s playing people online, and, then to see her face new problems as an intermediate player and to see that journey is really cool.

And to see her community experience that and grow with her is just totally awesome.

I want to just really quick touch on how it was launching on console and PC without an initial arcade release, and how has that changed development and post-launch updating?

Harada: Back in the day, it was, I guess, you could say a bit easier, because we started off the arcade iteration which just includes the battle portion of the game. So, that allowed us to put some time into polishing that portion before moving on to the console in which you start adding the various modes and other features that the console version received.

But since we don’t have that now, it’s like you have to provide everything from the start. You have to do the brand new game systems, all the stuff that goes into the console version. You have to polish them at the same time, as well as, create it.

And it’s really intense. That said, back in the day with the arcades, there wasn’t a worldwide connected internet and the fan base and all that. So, the communities were really localized and to get feedback, it was very hard. You’d have to pretty much go to that location.

Where now, although we have to create everything at the start and it’s quite intense, we’re more easily able to get feedback from the community because they’re connected to each other across the world. And it’s easier to access some of the more advanced players as well to get their feedback with the game. So, that does help. So, there are the challenges and drawbacks.

And then, also, the feedback, it’s easier to get, but you’re kind of overwhelmed by it, because before, you’re looking at just the battle portion for the arcade. But when we released Tekken 8 without an arcade version, you’re getting feedback about the balance of the game, the brand new system, some kind of characters.

Maybe, one of the features of the game, the people. There’s so much that encompasses, that it’s quite difficult to sift through it, and then, decide what do you prioritize, because we can’t do all of it at once, right?

Final question, I’m asking this to all the fighting game developers and producers that I’m talking to. But what do you believe is the next step forward for the fighting game genre?

We just kind of overcame Netcode with most games coming out now having rollback Netcode. What do you envision as any sort of new innovation or technology that you think could improve the genre and bring it into a new era of fighting games?

Harada: Like you said, there’s been various changes like rollback, et cetera, that have changed, but what [I’m] looking for in particularly is more of the community aspect and how that changes. Because we’ve seen a change outside of games, just the internet as a whole, in how people interact with each other and make friends, et cetera, that, perhaps, that will, somehow, make its way into fighting games.

And there’s kind of earlier iteration of fight launch in Tekken 8 that you can experience that to some degree. But then, also, just the way that you play the game. For example, currently, it’s… Normally, a one-on-one match is maybe ranked or something like that, where maybe we start to see more of a team-based battles, which are quite popular in areas like Japan.

Just seeing the way that people interact with each other in a fighting game, not just directly in the battle is something that will probably evolve. Maybe, perhaps, the way that you cheer on someone in a fighting game. You’re not playing directly, but you’re still enjoying it as you watch them. Or maybe, the way that you interact with that certain group who are playing the games online in some kind of a lobby, et cetera. These are the areas he thinks will maybe see changes in the future.

Ikeda: There’s a lot of possibility in the AI features that we included. For example, in Tekken 8, we can play against more refined CPU character because they mimic tendencies, et cetera. But the AI characters, the Ghosts example that we have, there are various uses, it’s not just to battle against them. It helps point out your flaws and help you practice and enhance your weak areas. Or maybe, it’s a AI version of yourself and allows you to more take a step back and see your own weaknesses more effectively.

And so, it kind of complements what Harada was talking about, that online community and how you interact with them. But then, you also have this kind of AI companion to help you in your journey as a player, and they’re kind of interwoven as he sees it.

Harada: Maybe, from the AI players, when you beat them, they’re going to start sending you salty messages like real players. [laughter]

Murray: I agree with Nakatsu, that I think the fun part of fighting games, and Harada mentioned this, is not going to change. It’s that chess between you and your opponent. But we see that, it’s often hard to get people who have no knowledge of fighting games to get to that step where they find out why fighting games are so amazing.

So, I think like Nakatsu and his team, some of the things that they’ve done with AI characters, or… I don’t think he talked about it today, but the replay against you and opponent where you can see that, but then, you can practice a certain iteration, I think those kind of things where it helps people get to that point where they can enjoy the chess is some of the evolution we’re going to be seeing as well.

Mitchell Saltzman is an Senior Producer at IGN. You can find him on twitter @JurassicRabbit